The Lady Who Beat an $8,000 Hospital Payment

Dan Weissmann

Hospital facility charges. They’ll really feel like a cost only for strolling within the door. Hospitals say they go towards overhead on amenities with numerous specialised gear and employees, like emergency rooms.

However these charges have grown and become more common lately. And as hospitals purchase up outpatient amenities, sufferers are beginning to get charged facility charges for routine checks, procedures, and visits to the physician’s workplace.

On this episode of “An Arm and a Leg,” host Dan Weissmann speaks with Georgann Boatright, a retired speech pathologist from Oxford, Mississippi, who was advised by her native hospital that she wanted to pay an $8,000 “working room payment” for a routine check. She was decided to not get overcharged, even when IT meant driving hours out of state to get the check someplace cheaper.

Dan Weissmann

@danweissmann

Host and producer of “An Arm and a Leg.” Beforehand, Dan was a employees reporter for Market and Chicago’s WBEZ. His work additionally seems on All Issues Thought of, Market, the BBC, 99 P.c Invisible, and Reveal, from the Middle for Investigative Reporting.

Credit

Emily Pisacreta
Producer

Claire Davenport
Producer

Adam Raymonda
Audio wizard

Ellen Weiss
Editor

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Transcript: The Lady Who Beat an $8,000 Hospital Payment

Be aware: “An Arm and a Leg” makes use of speech-recognition software program to generate transcripts, which can comprise errors. Please use the transcript as a instrument however test the corresponding audio earlier than quoting the podcast.

Dan: Hey there! A few months in the past, we requested you to assist us report on a sort of payment that appears to be sneaking onto an increasing number of medical payments. They’re typically known as “facility charges.” IT’s like a canopy cost only for strolling within the door. And these sorts of charges are acquainted to a whole lot of people from locations like emergency rooms, which do have a LOT of specialised gear and employees within the facility behind that door. That’s mainly the case for a canopy cost: When you get within the door, there’s a whole lot of stuff there. However in some circumstances, with facility charges, the door is simply the doorway to a health care provider’s workplace. As a result of facility charges– they’re typically charged by hospitals. And hospitals personal a whole lot of docs’ places of work lately. And as soon as they take over, there’s no regulation that claims they will’t simply name that physician’s workplace a part of their facility and begin charging. 

We requested what you’d been seeing. A bunch of you despatched us tales, and copies of your payments, and your insurance coverage statements. And once we known as to comply with up, you took our calls. You had A LOT to say. 

Teresa: Oh, IT made me so mad, so mad. Anne: I imply, IT’s a 10-minute appointment for a prescription. 

Amanda: I don’t perceive any of IT. The place did this quantity come from? 

Dan: We realized a bunch. Particularly from these of you who should not new to this sort of factor. 

Francesca: IT was a working joke with my husband and myself that like, okay, IT’s time for my weekly, one-to-two hour cellphone name with Cigna. 

Dan: Individuals who’ve been contending with the Health Care system for some time, coping with power diseases, or going to the physician for monitoring, or having some type of ongoing remedy. 

Anne: I see her every year. I’ve seen her every year for 18 years on the time. After which they began charging the ability payment. 

Dan: And I’ve at all times mentioned right here, we have now so much to study from one another. And what we realized right here is much more than is gonna slot in one episode. So we’re gonna begin right here with one story that basically stood out. Partly as a result of IT concerned the largest greenback quantity we noticed: An eight-thousand greenback facility payment. And partly as a result of the individual we heard from … didn’t find yourself paying IT. And partly due to what IT took for her to keep away from paying IT. She had what I’d name a lifetime of preparation– together with classes I feel a whole lot of us can study from. And he or she has the type of grit that not all of us have. However I’m hoping that a few of IT would possibly rub off. So let’s meet her. 

Georgann Boatright: My identify is Georgann Boatright, and I’m a retired speech pathologist. 

Dan: Georgann lives in Oxford, Mississippi. She works for the college there, Ole Miss, coordinating particular occasions. 

Georgann Boatright: IT’s numerous enjoyable. By no means a boring second. Every little thing from weddings to conferences. 

Dan: The day we talked, she had made espresso for 500 individuals. Earlier than eight am. And right here’s how she describes her response to that eight-thousand greenback cost. 

Georgann Boatright: I used to be like, that’s insane. And naturally, being the obnoxious human being that I might be at occasions, and just a little bit pushy, you understand; typically you bought to try this. I’ve at all times been that advocate for everyone else, so typically I’ve to advocate for me.

Dan: Georgann pushed again– we’ll discuss how far she needed to go. And amongst different issues, we’re speaking about precise miles she needed to journey. IT was not straightforward. However IT was price IT. Let’s take a trip. 

That is An Arm and a Leg– a present about why Health Care prices so freaking a lot, and what we will perhaps do about IT. I’m Dan Weissmann. I’m a reporter, and I like a problem. So the job we’ve chosen right here is to take one of the crucial enraging, terrifying, miserable elements of American life, and convey you a present that’s entertaining, empowering, and helpful. 

Georgann Boatright grew up in Oxford, went to Ole Miss– the College of Mississippi, proper on the town. And after a decade and alter in locations like Huntsville, Arkansas, and cities close to Springfield, Missouri, she moved again to Oxford about 15 years in the past. 

Georgann Boatright: My mother got here unwell. And so I moved again to Mississippi to be together with her for the tip. 

Dan: Georgann herself had a Health scare not lengthy after– IT turned out to be a non-cancerous tumor. Her native docs couldn’t determine the issue, however she discovered good remedy at West Most cancers Middle in Memphis, about an hour and a half away. After which, in 2022, an precise breast most cancers analysis. She went again to the West Most cancers Middle in Memphis for remedy. And whereas she was being handled for breast most cancers, her docs discovered a thyroid drawback. 

Georgann Boatright: However they have been type of like, okay, we’ll put that on a again burner for proper now as a result of we acquired to deal with this primary. 

Dan: So, they did! And you understand, that took months, in fact. As soon as she was performed– and no proof of most cancers for a number of months!– they picked up the thyroid thread. Her endocrinologist on the town advised what’s known as a needle biopsy: no incision, simply pulling a pattern with mainly a syringe, guided by ultrasound. And Georgann was lots conversant in the process as a result of she’d had two of them for her breast most cancers.

Georgann Boatright: Nicely, in fact, having simply performed all this different stuff, I used to be type of like, oh, okay, simply one other biopsy. No massive deal. 

Dan: Her endocrinologist advised the native hospital, Baptist Memorial, North Mississippi. And began getting her scheduled there. 

Georgann Boatright: I used to be simply sitting in my workplace doing my factor and, you understand, answering emails, attempting to get individuals to enroll and do a marriage. So, they known as me and mentioned, “Hey, you understand, we want a thousand {dollars} up entrance.” And I’m like, why? I’ve already met my deductible. Da, da, da. You already know, they usually’re like, Oh, nicely, that is simply that is simply your copay.” 

Dan: None of this sounded proper to Georgann, primarily based on her expertise. 

Georgann Boatright: I’d had two biopsies performed previously 12 months, simply within the strategy of doing the breast stuff. And I used to be like, that’s not regular. 

Dan: On the most cancers heart in Memphis, a thousand {dollars} was within the ballpark for the entire process, like earlier than insurance coverage paid something. And Georgann’s share, after insurance coverage, was like a fraction of that. 

Georgann Boatright: And I went, excuse me, due to course I used to be anticipating, you understand, underneath 100 bucks, you understand. And so they acted very offended that I questioned. She was like, “Nicely, that is normal.” And I used to be like, “However I’m confused,” and, you understand, and the extra questions, she acquired type of defensive. 

Dan: Georgann says she rapidly developed just a little sympathy for the girl on the opposite aspect of the decision. 

Georgann Boatright: I used to be like, this individual has no clue. That is their job. They’re given this Information. They’re given my cellphone quantity. They’re advised to gather a thousand {dollars} from me. You already know, I imply, IT’s not her fault. 

Dan: So, Georgann rapidly made a brand new plan. First step: get a line-item model of that estimate, in writing. And subsequent: discover anyone else to speak with. 

Georgann Boatright: I used to be like, “Nicely, hey, how about you simply do me a printout and I’ll come by the hospital and choose that up. When you’ll simply depart IT with anyone close to the desk …” 

Dan: … Then Georgann figured she will be able to truly see what these expenses are for and you understand, perhaps speak to anyone who’ll know just a little extra. She went that very same day. 

Georgann Boatright: I needed to get the biopsy performed. I needed to seek out out what was happening. You already know, when you’ve had most cancers, IT type of, that C phrase simply doesn’t sit nicely along with your mind. You type of, IT begins consuming at you and also you’re like, I actually need to know. 

Dan: And he or she needed to know why the hospital needed a thousand {dollars} from her. She acquired that printout– the road merchandise estimate. IT confirmed 13 thousand {dollars} in expenses. And the one largest cost– greater than half of the entire invoice– eight thousand {dollars}– was for an “working room” cost. IT wasn’t labeled “facility payment,” however that’s precisely what IT was. Georgann despatched us this line-item estimate. We confirmed IT to a medical-bill coding skilled; she confirmed– it is a facility payment. And I’ll simply point out once more: Of all of the individuals who despatched us payments with facility charges on them, this was the very best by a LOT. Alot so much. And seeing this “working room” cost actually set off alarm bells for Georgann. As a result of Georgann had simply had TWO needle biopsies. And so they certain as heck had not taken place in an working room. 

Georgann Boatright: IT’s a needle aspiration. IT is ultrasound-guided. So IT’s performed in radiology. This isn’t in an working room. 

Dan: When she acquired to Baptist, Georgann did get to speak in individual with a billing specialist. IT wasn’t a satisfying heart-to-heart, however IT gave Georgann the readability she wanted. 

Georgann Boatright: At a sure level within the dialog, I used to be simply type of like, “You do understand that there’s not an working room concerned on this?” And he or she mentioned, “Nicely, in fact, there’s.” I used to be like, “No, there actually isn’t.” “Oh, nicely, that’s simply our normal process.” And so she caught with that. And so I used to be like, okay, nicely, because you’re going to simply stick to this, I’m going to simply let this go. As a result of if I can’t appear to get you to grasp that I’m not going to pay you 8,000 {dollars} for an working room that I’m not going to go in, we’re not going to get anyplace. 

Dan: And Georgann knew she had another: She might return to the most cancers heart in Memphis. IT was a little bit of a drive, however she trusted them to do good work and to not overbill her. In order that’s what she did. Her out of pocket price was eighty {dollars}. We requested Baptist all about Georgann’s expertise, and what was behind this eight-thousand greenback cost. Particularly since medical and surgical provides have been listed as separate line objects. 

A hospital spokesperson wrote again: “The value a affected person sees on the hospital invoice additionally displays all of the individuals who look after them and hold the hospital working, not simply the providers offered, corresponding to nurses and caregivers on the bedside, pharmacists, lab technicians, meals service employees, environmental service professionals and safety personnel who, amongst many others, hold the hospital working 24/7. We consider we cost honest and affordable costs for our skilled care.” 

In fact, we additionally requested Baptist why there could be an working room cost in any respect, when the affected person didn’t anticipate to be seen in an working room. The spokesperson wrote again: “I’m unsure why there was a discrepancy. However, basically, the pricing Information we share with sufferers is barely an estimate, and the ultimate invoice can range. We encourage sufferers to contact us with any questions.” OK, then. And I simply need to say: I feel– nicely, I KNOW– that I’ve undersold what IT took for Georgann to make that call. I imply, yeah, we’ve seen, Georgann confirmed a whole lot of initiative, and savvy, and decisiveness, and a certain quantity of grace in navigating a few conversations together with her native hospital’s billing division. However we haven’t seen EXACTLY what made her so ready for these conversations, and to make her resolution so rapidly. And if we’re gonna study from Georgann’s instance, we’ve gotta have a look at that. That’s coming proper up. 

This episode of An Arm and a Leg is a co-production of Public Street Productions and KFF Health Information. Public Street is the group I based to make this present. The identify comes from Walt Whitman; I’ll let you know about IT someday. KFF Health Information is a nonprofit newsroom protecting healthcare in America. Their journalists do wonderful work– win every kind of awards, yearly. I’m honored to work with them. So, what allowed Georgann Boatright to navigate these conversations together with her hospital billing division so skillfully? And to rapidly resolve to drive to a different metropolis for care? Nicely, let’s begin together with her outdated job as a speech pathologist. You would possibly bear in mind, when she did that job, she was dwelling in locations like Huntsville, Arkansas. Or, as Georgann describes IT … 

Georgann Boatright: … Completely the center of nowhere, Arkansas. 

Dan: IT’s not like a speech therapist is gonna have a ton of purchasers on the town. Georgann labored for an company that despatched her in every single place. 

Georgann Boatright: I used to be driving about three- to five-hundred miles a day after I retired. 

Dan: A day! 

Georgann Boatright: Yeah, nicely, they’re unfold just a little skinny in that space. 

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Proper. How briskly have been you driving? Like, what number of hours are we speaking about being on the highway? 

Georgann Boatright: I used to be often on the highway 12 to 14 hours a day. 

Dan: Oh my god. 

Georgann Boatright: Yeah, however that’s as a result of, you understand, I used to be bouncing out and in all over the place from Liberty, Missouri, which is exterior of Kansas Metropolis, all the best way down into Arkansas. 

Dan: So, we begin to get the concept driving an hour and a half from Oxford to Memphis is, you understand, not such an enormous deal to Georgann. However there’s this different factor. Which is what Georgann spent all these hours in her automotive truly doing. As a result of she was not listening to podcasts, I can let you know that. She was coping with Health insurance coverage. On behalf of her colleagues and her sufferers. 

Georgann Boatright: I used to be the individual in our firm that will do all of the appeals. I acquired actually good at getting Medicare, Medicaid, Blue Cross Blue Defend– all of the insurances to pay. 

Dan: Georgann did all this by cellphone, with anyone again on the residence workplace transcribing for her. IT was a part of her gig– as a result of she had all that point within the automotive. The company she labored with additionally employed bodily therapists and occupational therapists, sending them out to nursing houses. And people colleagues would have a number of appointments a day on the identical spot. 

Georgann Boatright: I might solely have like, perhaps one or two sufferers through the course of the day, after which I might find yourself doing paperwork the remainder of the day or serving to another person do paperwork. 

Dan: As a result of not solely did Georgann have time with all these hours within the automotive. She had one thing else: language expertise. 

Georgann Boatright: The crew that I labored with, they have been principally from the Philippines, and we partied very nicely. And I ate a whole lot of good meals, and I gained weight. And no fault of their very own, English wasn’t their first language. In order that was a part of my job was to ensure that the language barrier wasn’t the issue for the bodily and occupational therapists getting paid. 

Dan: So for 5 years, she spent most of her lengthy workday coping with insurance coverage. 

Georgann Boatright: That was what I did, and I used to be actually, actually good at IT. You already know, whenever you get on a primary identify foundation with the reps in your space, you understand that you just’re a thorn of their aspect. After they would see my identify, they’d be like, “We’d as nicely simply go forward and pay this one as a result of she’s going to discover a method to get IT by.” 

Dan: So when Georgann ended up speaking with these people at her native hospital’s billing workplace– the oldsters who have been attempting to inform her that an eight-thousand-dollar operating-room payment was simply normal– she had a reasonably good thought of what their Jobs have been: Simply getting the hospital’s cash. 

Georgann Boatright: I get that. And I perceive that, however you understand, you need to perceive whenever you’re calling individuals and asking them for cash that you need to know why they’re paying you cash and whether or not or not you possibly can justify how a lot they’re paying you. 

Dan: So, simply to recap: When Georgann was in these conversations with the native hospital billing division, she had years and years of expertise in medical billing. She was, by her account, actually actually good at IT. IT doesn’t appear to be a stretch to guess that when she talked with these people on the native hospital’s billing division, she knew much more about medical billing than they did. And he or she knew that this hospital wasn’t her solely possibility. She had simply performed most cancers remedy at West Most cancers Middle in Memphis. She trusted them, they usually hadn’t overbilled her. And he or she wasn’t afraid of a highway journey. That 300-mile, 500-mile-a-day job was some time in the past, however simply within the final 12 months she’d made the trek to Memphis for most cancers therapies, a number of occasions. In actual fact, the story of the wrap-up to that remedy gave me actual appreciation for Georgann Boatright’s model of cheerful grit and dedication. For greater than a 12 months, Georgann had been planning an enormous household reunion for Christmas: Her children, their children, gathered from throughout the nation, to a lodge close to her husband’s mother. 

Georgann Boatright: I needed his mother who has been getting on in age to get an opportunity to see the nice grands and this sort of stuff. 

Dan: Georgann had made the reservation for the lodge months earlier than her most cancers analysis. After which, the final day of her radiation remedy acquired scheduled for December 23. The reunion was scheduled to start out that very night time. In Branson, Missouri– a five-hour drive from Memphis. 

Georgann Boatright: And I used to be like, I’m not canceling this. Everyone’s like, “Mother, you don’t have to do that,” blah, blah, blah. I used to be like, “No, I’m going to be wholesome and performed with this remedy. By the point of this reservation.” I mentioned, “I don’t care what occurs!” 

Dan: The process that final day was to take away a tool that had been delivering focused radiation doses. And when the day got here, an ice storm knocked out the facility at West Most cancers Middle. The medical employees advised, you understand, rescheduling. 

Georgann Boatright: They’re like, “Nicely, do you need to come … No! I would like this performed. I’m not coming again tomorrow. 

Dan: Wow. 

Georgann Boatright: I’m going to make this reservation. I’m going to spend the night time in a really good place in Branson, Missouri and play within the snow. 

Dan: IT wasn’t gonna be straightforward. 

Georgann Boatright: There was no energy. There was no lights. There was solely the little emergency generator lights that come on in a hospital. 

Dan: However they made IT work. 

Georgann Boatright: I had IT taken out that day. By the flashlights of the nurses 

Dan: The flashlights on the nurses telephones! Georgann says she slept within the automotive whereas her husband drove them to Branson that day. Mission achieved. 

Georgann Boatright: IT was a fantastic journey, and all people was there, and IT was great to type of have a good time on the finish of that. I used to be performed with radiation. I used to be like, I’m going to get nicely now and simply hold kicking most cancers’s butt. As a result of I used to be like, I’m not giving up. 

Dan: I mentioned proper on the high: This story is epic, proper? And I mentioned that no matter’s powering Georgann Boatright, I hope just a bit little bit of IT can rub off on us– on me. So, when Georgann talked with the oldsters within the billing division at her native hospital, she knew simply what she was able to. Additionally, IT’s price mentioning, she knew she had another issues that not all people has: She knew she had glorious insurance coverage as a result of she’d seen IT at work when she acquired the payments for her breast most cancers remedy. And he or she knew she had somebody to drive her to Memphis and again. Uber? That will’ve price a LOT. Truly, Georgann says she priced IT lately for her job. 

Georgann Boatright: IT’s 145 {dollars}, and I used to be like, you bought to be kidding me! 

Dan: I consider I might fly to Memphis from Chicago for 145 {dollars} a method. 

Georgann Boatright: I might get a flight to Southwest for 120. Consider me, I do IT. That’s my factor. If I do IT through the week, I can go from right here to Halfway. Yeah. 

Dan: Wait, why is flying to Chicago’s Halfway airport Georgann’s factor? Nicely, the reply truly pertains to another factor Georgann had going for her on this complete situation. One thing– somebody– I ignored earlier than. 

Melissa McChesney: My identify is Melissa McShesney. I dwell in Chicago, Illinois. 

Dan: Melissa is Georgann’s daughter. She is the mother of two of Georgann’s grandkids. Melissa’s brother– dad to a few extra grandkids– he additionally lives in Chicago. These children and grandkids are, all of them, the explanation Georgann has that airfare on the tip of her tongue. However IT’s Melissa who performs a job on this story. As a result of Melissa works for CMS, the Facilities for Medicare and Medicaid Companies– the federal company that oversees Medicaid and Medicare. So Health insurance coverage is her job. I imply, at the very least government-funded insurance coverage. 

Melissa McChesney: I solely know sufficient to be harmful on the personal aspect. However, you understand, I’ve colleagues that know much more. 

Dan: Melissa and her mother– two Health-insurance consultants– can again one another up. 

Melissa McChesney: IT’s at all times nice to have one other set of eyes. So, typically I name her, typically she calls me. 

Dan: This time– after these conversations with the hospital billing division– IT was Georgann who did the dialing. 

Melissa McChesney: She known as me to say, “This doesn’t make any sense. Why is that this the most costly process I’ve seen in a 12 months after I simply went by breast most cancers remedy? No less than from the out-of-pocket price. And I fairly frankly didn’t totally know both. 

Dan: So some poking round led Melissa to a narrative from the Invoice of the Month sequence our buddies at KFF Health Information do with NPR. 

NPRHost: For our September invoice of the month, we’re taking an in depth have a look at facility expenses … 

Dan: And this story was a reasonably actual match with Georgann’s scenario: An working room cost for a needle biopsy. NPR’s web site even had a PDF of the unique invoice, with the billing codes.  

Melissa McChesney: Which was very useful, truly, as a result of I used to be capable of see the payment that the article was centered on. And I used to be like, “That is the very same factor, mother.” 

Dan: And that little bit of context? IT confirmed for Georgann that she might belief her preliminary impression: That this “working room” payment appeared out of whack. And that she might do higher. So she had that biopsy at West Most cancers Middle in Memphis earlier than the week was out. And excellent news: She’s OK! The biopsy got here again benign. Her native endocrinologist has been monitoring her bloodwork. 

Georgann Boatright: And so proper in the meanwhile, my thyroid ranges are all staying regular. So that they’re not involved that IT’s throwing off all the pieces until IT turns into like an enormous factor that grows in my neck. 

Dan: And he or she will get an occasional ultrasound at an area clinic. No needle, no hospital, no facility charges– and keeping track of the payments. 

Georgann Boatright: They’ve been very affordable. That’s why I used to be like, okay, nicely I’ll proceed doing this so long as y’all don’t screw me over anymore. 

Dan: One very last thing I ought to let you know about Georgann and the way she dealt with that eight thousand greenback cost the hospital had needed: That is one thing she did after her daughter Melissa despatched her that NPR story– you understand, the one which helped her resolve she was positively going to Memphis. Melissa’s acquired this a part of the story. 

Melissa McChesney: She despatched the NPR article and her estimate to her endocrinologist and mentioned, “Simply so you understand, that is what occurs whenever you refer people to this hospital. And you understand, IT would price them some huge cash.” I used to be so pleased with her for doing that. IT simply speaks to my mother and attempting to be an individual who’s not simply frightened about her personal expertise, however the expertise of others in her neighborhood.

 Dan: I’m telling you, all of us need a few of Georgann Boatright to rub off on us.An ArmandaLeg Season 12, Episode 1 July, 11, 2024 p.14 You despatched us SO MANYstories about facility charges. I hope you possibly can see why we needed to deliver you this one first, however we’re not performed. We talked with a bunch of you– and we talked with some consultants who gave us some insights … and a few classes. 

Shelley Safian: Typically you speak to the doctor, typically you speak to the ability, typically you bought to go to the president and say, “You already know what? This isn’t proper.” 

Dan: And we talked to consultants who gave us a have a look at what coverage makers everywhere in the nation are doing– or attempting to do– about these charges. As a result of they’re positively paying consideration. As a result of lots of people are recognizing: You shouldn’t should be Georgann Boatright to discover a means round charges like this. Most of us aren’t. 

Christine Monahan: There’s bipartisan curiosity on this subject. We’re seeing these reforms bubble up throughout the states. 

Dan: So over the following couple of months, we’ll be sharing a LOT extra of what you’ve been serving to us study. In the meantime, since you’ve been so extremely useful right here, I’m going to return again to you quickly asking for extra assistance on a unique story. That’s coming subsequent time. Until then, deal with your self. 

This episode of An Arm and a Leg was produced by Emily Pisacreta and Claire Davenport, with assist from me, Dan Weissmann, and edited by Ellen Weiss. Adam Raymonda is our audio wizard. Our music is by Dave Weiner and Blue Dot Classes. Gabrielle Healy is our managing editor for viewers. Gabe Bullard is our engagement editor. Bea Bosco is our consulting director of operations. Sarah Ballama is our operations supervisor. 

An Arm and a Leg is produced in partnership with KFF Health Information. That’s a nationwide newsroom producing in-depth journalism about healthcare in America and a core program at KFF, an impartial supply of Health coverage analysis, polling, and journalism. Zach Dyer is senior audio producer at KFF Health Information. He’s editorial liaison to this present. 

And because of the Institute for Nonprofit Information for serving as our fiscal sponsor. They permit us to simply accept tax-exempt donations. You’ll be able to study extra about INN at INN.org. 

Lastly, thanks to all people who helps this present financially. You’ll be able to take part any time at https://armandalegshow.com/support/. Thanks a lot for pitching in in the event you can– and, thanks for listening.

“An Arm and a Leg” is a co-production of KFF Health Information and Public Street Productions.

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