How Headhunters Actually Work

Renata Bernarde (00:00)
That is an episode about how government recruitment works on the highest ranges. IT’s about how headhunters suppose, how they construct a search, how they determine expertise, how recruiters assess whether or not somebody is related for a job, and the way candidates can construct higher, extra strategic relationships with headhunters over time.

In the present day’s dialog is with Gerard Miles, a headhunter specializing within the video games and leisure sector and co-founder of Mission One. Now, earlier than you suppose I don’t work in gaming, so this episode is probably not for me, I need you to stick with us.

As a result of what Gerard shares at this time is far greater than gaming. In the event you change the phrase gaming with mining, schooling, retail, Technology, monetary providers, Health, authorities or another sector, the rules are the identical.

Gerard could be very open in regards to the course of behind government search. He explains how recruiters work with purchasers, how they map the market, how they use LinkedIn, how referrals matter, and why being seen in the correct manner issues greater than being seen all over the place. We additionally speak about profession positioning. Gerard shares how he moved from a broader tech search into a really particular area of interest in gaming and why niching down helped him grow to be recognized available in the market.

Now this a part of the dialog is absolutely helpful for anybody interested by their very own skilled positioning, particularly in the event you’re in a senior management place making an attempt to face out in a aggressive market. We additionally focus on what occurs when candidates come from outdoors the recruiter’s area of interest. That is one thing many skilled professionals ask me about, particularly after they wish to transfer into an adjoining business.

and Gerard offers you a really sincere view of when that works, when IT doesn’t, and what makes a crossover story extra convincing.

So if you’re actively job looking out or quietly contemplating your subsequent transfer or just making an attempt to know how senior hiring actually works, I believe you will see this dialog actually sensible and grounding.

And if after listening to this episode you understand you need assistance working with recruiters, positioning your self for senior roles or planning your job search, you’ll be able to attain out to me. I’m a profession coach. I’m specialised and skilled professionals of their 40s, 50s and 60s, prepared to stay employable and in charge of their careers. You’ll be able to e-book a one-on-one session with me at any time by way of my web site. And if you want to work with me over your transition interval,

say three or six months, you’ll be able to e-book an introductory assembly with me in order that we are able to focus on the extent of help that will likely be best for you. All the small print can be found on my web site renatabernarde.com. That’s R-E-N-A-T-A-B-E-R-N-A-R-D-E.com. There’s a hyperlink to IT within the present notes. Now let’s welcome Gerard Miles to the Job Looking Podcast.

Renata Bernarde (03:24)
All proper. So let’s get going. Let’s speak about gaming and leisure. Inform me the way you managed to be in that business.

Gerard Miles (03:33)
Yeah, positive. Nicely, thanks for having me on the podcast as effectively. I’m not so delighted to be right here and to be speaking to your listeners. So yeah, I’m a headhunter as you’ve recognized IT. I’m additionally one which works extensively on this planet of video games and leisure. Choose that up. So I began doing kind of broader tech So I used to be doing CTOs, VP engineering, CPOs, product for.

Renata Bernarde (03:40)
Thanks.

Gerard Miles (04:00)
loads of earlier stage sequence B, sequence D, enterprise capital backed, SaaS companies, shopper tech, issues like this. And I used to be doing that with out an enormous diploma of ardour. I’m sincere, longest story that I used to be, I used to be really making an attempt to grow to be a political advocate. And so I had a job in parliament writing speeches and I used to be making an attempt to, that was form of, that was kind of profession plan A and headhunting was a part-time job to, to pay the payments. And so I used to be doing that. After which at some point,

One of many companions got here alongside and mentioned, I’ve bought a sport search in Barcelona, IT’s cellular gaming. And I mentioned, that sounds actually fascinating. I’m an enormous gamer. I’ve by no means finished a search in laptop gaming earlier than, however I used to play loads of video games as a toddler and as an grownup. And took that on and IT was an actual baptism of fireside in that cellular gaming is a really particular area of interest. There’s loads of data it’s essential to know what’s happening there.

Renata Bernarde (04:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Gerard Miles (04:57)
And I used to be working with a CEO who was one of many authentic cellular video games CEO founder. He knew every little thing there was to learn about IT. IT was always, I’d be making an attempt to analysis to ensure I used to be forward of him saying, this sport is horrible. Or don’t you already know about that huge scandal? As a result of there’s all this kind of inside data. So I needed to come up in a short time a curve round gaming and what IT was about. And I had an actual affinity with IT. And I noticed…

Look, lots of people don’t know this area of interest. Lots of people suppose that’s for teenagers or, know, there’s loads of, I believe, views folks had on laptop gaming, notably that is going again to 10 years nearly there. And IT was changing into a extremely explosive development sector, notably with the rise of cellular gaming, which is now the most important section of gaming. went from nothing to tons of of billions of {dollars} as a worldwide business in a decade. And I picked up that first search, thought that is fascinating.

bought extraordinarily fortunate in choosing up one other search in a short time off the again of that. And once more, I wasn’t a income generator at the moment. So I began producing income, which is an effective way to advance your profession in the event you’re in head looking. And thought, wow, I might do that. And fairly than being certainly one of 1,000 doing SaaS CTOs the world over, I believed, wow, perhaps I might be the primary at video games. That’s a sensible factor. IT’s fairly a small.

variety of folks specializing in right here. And that was additionally engaging to me to attempt to be the highest in my business and discover a sub area of interest and be actually the primary there. In order that’s how began in, in gaming. And IT grew from doing loads of work in cellular gaming. then began choosing out in Europe after which we began choosing up purchasers in North America. ⁓ my co the co-host of my podcast, Dan Hampton, he’s additionally the co-founder of mission one. I began working with him at my previous firm. He’s primarily based in North America. So the 2 of us collectively begin to actually personal this area of interest. After which.

⁓ IT grew after which I believe we had been kind of the the fellows below the radar doing video games after which on the time we picked up what was the most important retainer our search agency had ever finished IT was 4 hundred thousand {dollars} IT was like a extremely huge retainer and IT abruptly goes on the map as like wow like video games is absolutely fascinating and IT kind of as a sector so ⁓ and that position was like a 5 to 10 million greenback ⁓ compensation position actually huge worldwide position there very thrilling so

Renata Bernarde (07:12)
Mm-hmm.

Gerard Miles (07:21)
That then simply grew and grew. Now we have now our personal firm, Mission One. We’re throughout Technology round gaming. So IT’s a bit bit simply extra than simply sport making. IT’s Technology round gaming. IT’s round content material in video games. That’s PC, console, and cellular video games. After which this sort of fascinating space. I don’t know in the event you see this within the arts as effectively, however we see extra crossover between video games and different sectors. So that you see corporations like a health firm or language studying firm.

Renata Bernarde (07:39)
you

Gerard Miles (07:50)
or Health firm, trend firm, taking a look at video games, both to promote into that market or to take expertise out as a result of IT’s bought usable methods, monetization mechanisms, et cetera, to then go and convey into different sectors. So Duolingo is an efficient instance of that. Or I’d additionally have a look at chess.com. There’s loads of these very profitable shopper companies which have gamified a technique or one other. Gamified is a slim time period, but additionally taking a look at different methods ⁓ there.

Renata Bernarde (08:08)
Yeah.

Gerard Miles (08:20)
I’m primarily based right here within the UK, IT’s huge market in Europe as effectively for video games. ⁓ My co-founder Dan is at Dan Hampton’s primarily based over in So we’re throughout North America, Europe and Center East as effectively. IT’s an enormous space of development as you may know. lot of funding ⁓ going into cellular video games, notably from Saudi Arabia.

Renata Bernarde (08:37)
That’s wonderful. I’m so on this. IT’s one thing fully international to me, which now I remorse as a result of I used to be born within the 70s, raised within the 80s. I really like Halt and Catch Fireplace. IT’s certainly one of my favourite TV sequence. I don’t know in the event you’re aware of Halt and Catch Fireplace, however IT’s all in regards to the starting of the gaming business in California and computer systems and at last web. goes on for a number of seasons.

And I used to be there. I lived in Silicon Valley. My father labored in tech and I by no means bought into video games. IT’s fairly weird. However what I really like about your story is one thing that I want loads of my purchasers who’re on the lookout for work and on the lookout for ⁓ to changing into thought leaders and specialists of their fields, SMEs, to discover a area of interest, to discover a area of interest that provides them goal, to discover a area of interest that marries ⁓

⁓ income with one thing that you just love, you take pleasure in, can speak confidently about. In order that’s actually pretty. What I really like to listen to extra from you is for those who are outdoors of this headhunting world, particularly outdoors of gaming, how does IT work behind the scenes? How do you discover your folks? How do you discover the correct candidates on your purchasers?

Gerard Miles (10:01)
IT’s an amazing query, Renata, and clearly one we get requested lots. In all probability the primary query I at all times get requested every time I clarify one thing, have a head of this yr, however how do you discover the folks? And IT’s course of, proper? I’m an enormous believer that almost all issues which might be sound complicated or unusual are simply uncommon, proper? Or like, know, they’re only a course of that you just kind of break down into smaller elements and there’s not a magic piece to IT. I believe headhunting is fascinating in that

includes many alternative abilities. So I believe everyone seems to be kind of most likely fairly good at bits of headhunting. I imply, everybody is sort of good at some little bit of headhunting, and doubtless everybody is sort of unhealthy at different bits. And I suppose a only a few people get to be good in any respect items by way of work or expertise. So IT begins out with, I believe, clear understanding of what you’re on the lookout for, proper? Like, clearly articulating with the shopper and understanding the market they’re going after.

And that’s why I a specialism as effectively, since you begin up to the mark. Whereas in the event you’re doing the broader you might be, the extra you’re, oh, fascinating. And is that this a great firm? Is {that a} good firm? You already know, you’re making an attempt to be taught that story round, you already know, in the event you’re doing one thing actually area of interest that shopper does. So IT’s pondering fairly deeply about what are you on the lookout for? The place are the expertise swimming pools that these candidates are going to return from? So is IT going to be different massive listed corporations? That is likely to be an element. IT is likely to be greater development corporations. IT is likely to be individuals who have finished a turnaround not too long ago, proper? So that you’re making an attempt to…

slim IT all the way down to, the place are the seemingly people coming from? And there is likely to be inventive concepts as effectively. may say, effectively, that is form of analogous to that. So to get, know, to a video games instance, an enormous factor in cellular video games is free to play video games. Now some PC console video games are additionally free to play as kind of video games as a service. So that you may say, really perhaps somebody might cross over. They typically don’t really, however perhaps on the extra mid-core and I is likely to be going to mid-core hardcore finish of gaming, you may discover a extra crossover space.

⁓ So that you begin pondering creatively. So when you’ve bought your goal checklist of the place you’re on the lookout for, you then begin to consider the degrees of the form of folks that might be proper. After which often as a headhunter, you’ve bought a robust community and a robust understanding. So that you’re going right away to who do I do know already who’s both a great match for this position or has employed people who find themselves good match for this position? Like whose recommendation do I belief? In order that’s the sourcing a part of the search that we go into. So we do loads of sourcing, loads of…

You already know named referrals of individuals understanding the place the perfect expertise swimming pools lie After which we’re additionally backing that up with loads of desk primarily based analysis So that you’re going by way of linkedin your title looking out on linkedin and you actually what you’re making an attempt to do is construct up I prefer to suppose I used to be defined to be an previous boss He says you’re making an attempt to chop the cake in as some ways as doable. So sourcing referencing desk primarily based analysis to attempt to discover

the broadest variety of candidates who might be glorious suits for that. And then you definitely’re handing them over to the shopper and there’s loads of work there in really changing these candidates. I’ll pause there. That’s a few of what we name this with identification piece, which is a mixture of intelligence-based analysis round speaking to folks and desk-based analysis that enhances one another.

Renata Bernarde (13:14)
Okay. I’m assuming that loads of the good candidates come beneficial. IT’s such an fascinating area of interest. How a lot does LinkedIn performs into your sourcing?

Gerard Miles (13:25)
Yeah, so IT’s integral to serving to construct out that funnel. As I mentioned, actually is the 2 kind of horses pulling the cart actually off as I

the human-based Intel that you just’re getting, after which desk-based analysis. And that might be, IT’s not simply LinkedIn. suppose IT’s, LinkedIn is clearly an essential a part of that, ⁓ to assist discover titles. In some methods, IT’s additionally that will help you discover the form of an organization. So IT’s not simply the person, however you’re getting a way of leveling, a way of, in the event you’re speaking to a candidate, IT’s actually helps to know, go, I noticed someone who’s additionally an SVP right here, who’s bought a fairly comparable title. What do you do between them? They usually abruptly go, yeah, effectively they…

They cowl North America and I do Europe. So IT helps you unlock and perceive a candidate’s profile higher ⁓ there. After which additionally, once more, generally taking a look at web sites, taking a look at annual stories, et cetera, may make it easier to perceive, okay, how do they construction these divisions? Who’s actually the GM, basic supervisor, who’s in control of that unit? And who do they report into? How does that stream? Have been they in cost after they went by way of a very good patch or a very unhealthy patch, proper? And you’ll ask them about that. ⁓

I’d say ⁓ LinkedIn might be our, of all of the instruments we have now, IT’s primary when it comes to significance ⁓ there, however IT’s additionally together or IT’s not kind of LinkedIn alone in the way you’re going about your search.

Renata Bernarde (14:47)
Okay. With the roles that you’re assigned to do, do they get marketed? As a result of lots of my listeners really feel like these roles usually are not being marketed. Is that proper?

Gerard Miles (15:03)
Appropriate. Most of those roles usually are not marketed or we don’t work on any marketed roles. And the explanation for that, there’s a few causes for that, however I believe the primary one is the candidates you’re typically making an attempt to get. So we work on senior degree roles and I believe IT is totally different at something beneath, beneath kind of director degree. So something that’s a supervisor, senior supervisor beneath lead into particular person contributors. I believe IT’s a unique sort of market, however.

For us, IT’s about figuring out who’re the highest folks. They’re most likely very effectively settled of their position. They’re most likely not trying. additionally, so that you wish to make them really feel so particular. You wish to make them really feel like that is the within monitor, proper? These are the Jobs, as you mentioned. These Jobs usually are not being marketed, proper? These are among the most fun, finest paid, greatest alternative roles of their sector.

Renata Bernarde (15:55)
Mm-hmm.

Gerard Miles (15:56)
So, so quantity is, is you don’t need the quantity of simply everybody making use of, proper? We used to, at our previous firm, we had a system the place you possibly can add, IT was board roles, IT was a unique product and folks might add or apply for roles they noticed was fascinating. And also you used to get folks from all over the place. Like a job would say, must be in Germany and someone in Nigeria or Singapore would apply and also you’d say, it’s important to overview IT. And yeah, IT takes up loads of human time, so politely, however you didn’t, you didn’t even learn the temporary. You simply thought that sounds a great job.

So IT can take loads of assets and which means we would miss probably the most related profile. You’re then creating the haystack to search out the needle, proper? Relatively than simply going straight in to look. And likewise the corporate hiring won’t need IT to be public typically, proper? You may wish to let anybody know that is, a few of our roles are confidential. Even the individual changing doesn’t know.

Renata Bernarde (16:44)
Mm-hmm.

Gerard Miles (16:51)
You already know, simply can’t, you’ll be able to’t be placing on the market or there’s, you already know, you’re intentionally conserving below the radar since you’re sitting on a gold mine. don’t wish to inform everybody about IT, proper? Trigger you wish to mine that gold your self earlier than you’re telling everybody too extensively. So, no, we don’t promote in that persons are proper. These roles are locked behind. I, on our podcast, really on the manager edge, a podcast that we have now, we really speak lots about this as like, how do you place your profession?

to ⁓ entry these roles, how do you get on the radar of these roles that aren’t simply accessible?

Renata Bernarde (17:28)
Nicely, that was my subsequent query to you. So when you have a senior government that desires to be in your radar for these alternatives, what’s one of the best ways for them to achieve out to you?

Gerard Miles (17:39)
Yeah. ⁓ a lot of issues. I imply, there’s, there’s the, lens of like, how do I come up with a headhunter? That’s, that’s a kind of a easiest sending them a message and hoping that, you already know, their inbox isn’t too rammed that day and being a bit persistent. In order that’s kind of the, simple connecting. However I believe the bit behind that’s understanding who’re the related head hunters so that you can know. As a result of once more, generally I get emails from folks saying like, Hey, I’m a CFO at a fintech.

Renata Bernarde (17:46)
Mm.

Gerard Miles (18:07)
enterprise. I’m like, that’s nice, however that’s not likely my specialist, you already know, you kind of politely once more, so say, I don’t suppose I’m the perfect individual that will help you, you presume in the event that they’ve emailed a listing of individuals. However there are going to be headhunters which might be hyper related to you as an government and actually understand how that will help you. So in the event you’re in video games and kind of shopper round that, then I’m an amazing headhunter to know, proper, like, like, and have a can have a related curiosity in in the event you’ve bought a background.

these areas. In the event you’re doing industrials, I’m not the perfect headhunter, know, there are different folks, proper? So IT sounds a fundamental level, however I see execs going unsuitable on that, proper? Or once more, IT’s seen as perhaps we’re seen as a bit generic. So perceive the headhunter, I might go deeper on that. sure huge corporations, if you wish to do huge listed company roles, once more, you most likely wish to have interaction with a really specialised headhunter on these form of roles, or all the larger, we name Shrek corporations, that these bigger

⁓ these multinational corporations, once more, they is likely to be doing loads of the listed work. If you wish to go work for a enterprise capital enterprise, enterprise, Once more, there’ll be area of interest, area of interest areas there and geographies and different areas. So I believe that’s one of many bit is, simply researching, you already know, in your business and IT’d most likely be solely 4 or 5 folks most likely throughout your, your area. So in the event you’re in Europe, in the event you’re in Europe doing once more, SAS, CTOs, there’s most likely perhaps a bit extra, 5 to 10 high folks at totally different corporations.

Renata Bernarde (19:08)
Yeah.

Gerard Miles (19:32)
And IT is likely to be, you already know, IT is likely to be at that decrease finish that it’s essential to be on the radar of. You don’t want 20, 30 contacts ⁓ as a result of they’ll be taking loads of that market share.

Renata Bernarde (19:39)
Sure.

Gerard, but when IT’s an adjoining business, for instance, I’m pondering of a selected shopper of mine. is a CPO, Chief Product Officer for a SaaS firm with expertise working with massive and mid-sized SaaS ⁓ organizations. Is that shut sufficient to what you do that you’d be fascinated about speaking to him?

or no.

Gerard Miles (20:14)
IT would rely, most likely not, to be sincere. Once more, IT would rely a bit bit on the nuance of, OK, effectively, is there purposes for what they’re doing? So once more, some areas have loads of overlap, proper? Or we would choose up a ⁓ SaaS shopper that’s primarily serving video games however needs to look broader. However IT’s most likely not is the reply. once more, IT’s within the nuance of.

Renata Bernarde (20:15)
Okay.

Okay.

Gerard Miles (20:41)
The place’s the overlap, proper? Are there loads of purchasers that overlap? Are there loads of similarities of the market or the method to market? You already know, the use case, in the event you’re a product officer, you already know, the kind of designing. In the event you have a look at somebody who’s, you we had been doing a search not too long ago and we’re taking a look at some folks from a shopper market cellular app. we checked out, and simply the best way they do product is so totally different.

Renata Bernarde (20:48)
Okay.

Gerard Miles (21:09)
from what they had been doing in video games. IT simply didn’t make sense, though the excessive degree similarities had been there.

Renata Bernarde (21:10)
Okay.

Okay, okay. So that you’ve positioned executives throughout, I’m assuming, North America, Europe, you mentioned Center East as effectively. What are the patterns that you just see within the individuals who persistently land the roles that they need, no matter geography or tradition? Can you discover patterns in your profitable candidates?

Gerard Miles (21:42)
Sure, I believe you’ll be able to Renata. So among the patterns can be they typically have a profession and a CV trajectory. And once more, we speak lots about this on our podcast. like, how do you form your profession narrative, proper? To place your self to…

actually maximize your finish aim, proper? Like 5, 10 years time. How do you consider how do I get to these high C degree Jobs, even once you’re 5, 10 years away and also you’re creating that artwork? So I believe the perfect candidates typically they’ve simply bought monitor report of success. So that they’ve simply gone to a number of totally different locations for a great period of time. So that they’ll have gone for 3 to 5 years typically. They usually’ll be capable of present they had been a part of some key transformational key

driving aspect there. IT might be development. That’s clearly pretty. IT might be, look, really in a troublesome market, we cut back decline. IT might be we managed to remain secure towards a declining market. That may be an amazing story as effectively, proper? However IT must be one thing the place folks, you already know, we reference folks loads of this as effectively, the place the referencing, the CV, the tenures, all of them stack as much as say, wow, this individual, after they got here into a corporation,

their influence was felt and everybody was aligned round that and good folks wish to hold working with them. That’s one other huge a part of IT. You already know, that kind of good folks observe them. Hey, I’ve employed folks out of that firm earlier than and I do know they’re good. You already know, there’s simply sure areas inside industries the place like folks come collectively and so they create magic. And in the event you’ve finished two or three of these, you’re proving IT wasn’t only a one off hyperlink was once in the correct time and proper place. IT’s onerous to do this. So

Once more, IT’s not simple to take a seat down and go like, proper, I can’t be part of this XY firm. However I believe choice of your personal corporations, you go be part of, proper? As a result of that may have an effect on you, proper? suppose generally folks take a job and so they remorse IT. Two years later, they’re out. And sadly, for a CV perspective, that could be a little bit of a… IT could be a little bit of a drag. IT’s not deadly in any respect. You may get over that. However IT could be a little bit of a drag the place IT takes a shine off one thing.

I believe being actually selective in regards to the high quality of the folks you’re working with, the chance that’s there, the of the standard of the opposite people who find themselves going to be in that group, you’re constructing that narrative and staying at a great degree of time and pondering, okay, what am going to personal or what am going to essentially drive right here in order that if someone references me, they will say, wow, this individual was actually crucial. That can hold constructing your alternatives and hold making you probably the most fascinating candidates available in the market.

Renata Bernarde (24:18)
Mm-hmm.

And if you consider gaming and leisure within the years forward, 2026 and past, is that this an space that’s excessive development in order that if someone is considering their careers and interested by pivoting into video games and leisure, is IT value whereas pursuing that? Let’s say in the event that they’re in SaaS or tech or one thing adjoining and so they wish to

bounce into video games and leisure, is {that a} good funding of their time or do you suppose the market is already saturated for the business?

Gerard Miles (25:05)
So proper now, video games is in a kind of depressed part of development. So post-COVID, there was an enormous increase as a result of everybody was inside and folks had cash to spend. So that they had been inside gaming, spending on video games. So we have now this enormous accelerated kind of occasion rush of cash into video games. And everybody and their canine was shopping for gaming corporations. Submit-COVID, fortunately,

Renata Bernarde (25:10)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Gerard Miles (25:33)
All of us bought to go outdoors and do different issues other than play video games. And that led to video games corporations that employed on the premise that they had been going to continue to grow at X share. And even when they had been rising, in the event you’re rising at 2%, however you employed to develop at 15%, proper? You’ve bought too many individuals within the org. So we’ve seen enormous quantities of layoffs within the final two, three years, 4 years. Sorry, since COVID has three years, isn’t IT? And likewise a huge impact on the

Renata Bernarde (25:57)
Mm-hmm.

Gerard Miles (26:01)
high quality of video games and manufacturing pipelines attributable to earn a living from home insurance policies being shaken out once more, folks working from house, making video games has been tougher when persons are working at house, that’s led to extra prices, meant to extra losses, issues like that. So general, though I believe the highest line of the numbers are development within the business, IT’s actually been very low development and IT’s been very closely weighted to a small variety of gamers. And there’s been loads of ache available in the market the final three years. So IT’s not a golden time to get into video games.

Now, having mentioned that, we’re very lengthy on the chance round gaming as a result of play, we kind of have a look at this play, play is important to human expertise. Like folks take pleasure in enjoying and have finished because the daybreak of time, you see animals doing IT and that’s going to take care of development. I do know you talked about sports activities and issues such as you’re on podcasts, proper?

in different areas, we’re at all times going to be enjoying some kind of sport and having fun with ourselves in a group and play and solo. In order that market will develop.

Whether or not there will likely be a kind of an enormous shift, like an enormous tech shift that may create an explosive alternative. My guess is sure, however I don’t know what that’s. So once more, going again to cellular video games, cellular went from nothing to tons of of billions. So in the event you might return in time and get into cellular gaming in 2010, incredible. Completely incredible. You’ll, you already know, lots of people grew to become multi multimillionaires or tons of of billionaires proper round that development interval, if you’re in at the moment.

And IT was form of humorous as a result of on the time IT kind of mocked as a pathetic kind of, actual video games sort factor, what’s happening right here. Individuals aren’t going to spend cash on cellular gaming, what are you speaking about? After which you will have Sweet Crush and the likes making billions and billions of {dollars}. IT’s a tough business to get into in the intervening time. I’d advise you that, imply, once more, in case your ardour is there, I’d say, don’t observe that. Discover the area of interest, proper? Like discover the realm that you could create.

Now, I believe the extra fascinating space, is that this crossover. So we see corporations like a Duolingo. They simply acquired a video games firm primarily based in London. Nextbeat, span out of SpaceApe. Actually sensible bunch of men, however that’s form of fascinating. You see Geolingo. OK, Geolingo is shopping for a video games firm. Netflix additionally constructed up a video games division, which you may learn about. Now, that’s been a little bit of a rocky.

I believe, street for them. And IT’s going to be how a lot they’re going to maintain investing in there. I don’t know. So we’re to see. So there’s clearly loads of curiosity from non-gaming corporations about this sector. And I believe in the event you might be on the intersection of that, then there is likely to be one thing actually fascinating. I believe how do you keep customers’ consideration? How do you retain folks engaged?

Similar factor twice, however you ways do you educate folks and habits? These are three issues that lot of corporations are fascinated about no matter what you’re guaranteeing Video games is aware of how to do this. So Yeah, we have now an app podcast a man known as John the Knight. He’s the man who runs New York Occasions video games so don’t know in the event you do wordle Renata or ⁓ Do you employ any of their apps or? Yeah, that’s grow to be an enormous income stream. Proper? That may be a that’s a

Renata Bernarde (29:03)
They’re very talked-about. Yeah.

Gerard Miles (29:09)
an organization of very lengthy historical past in media and people had the puzzle part. However now that’s an enormous chunk of their income. They usually did that by hiring in someone from the pc gaming business, constructing that up, making a sensible acquisition. They usually’ve bought, I overlook the numbers, however suppose tons of of tens of millions of individuals use that. Lots of people, like tens of tens of millions, are doing that every day. And that’s sort cool, proper? That’s form of to re-diversify your business. And then you definitely suppose, OK, what can we do on high there? Corporations are doing IT effectively. Corporations are doing IT badly, proper?

Renata Bernarde (29:25)
Mm-hmm.

Gerard Miles (29:39)
I believe folks underestimate what IT takes to make a sport that’s profitable and interesting and all the remainder. So if you are able to do IT in a severe manner, as I mentioned, Duolingo completely crushes its competitors to a unprecedented extent as a result of IT realized gamify issues. There’s crossover potentials with media. IT’s a extremely good crossover that Supercell did, is an enormous Helsinki primarily based video games firm and chess.com. They did some crossover awards the place you possibly can get awards within the sport in the event you’re enjoying on chess.com.

That was an enormous driver of development for them. So in the event you’re fully unaware of IT and dismissing IT, I positively say concentrate as a result of, you already know, there’s billions of video games on the market generationally. IT’s solely going to get greater since you bought, I noticed you mentioned you’re gonna have a grandchild quickly, proper? Like in some unspecified time in the future that child will likely be enjoying Minecraft. They’ll be enjoying roadblocks or their associates will, or the subsequent era of that. Proper. So these days youngsters are arising used to enjoying social.

video games as a part of their background in a manner that kind 40, 50 years in the past, IT simply didn’t occur in the identical manner generationally. So, ⁓ and IT’s a less expensive worth level and also you couldn’t play on-line as a result of the web didn’t actually exist. Proper. So these days that could be a core a part of an individual rising up expertise. And in the event you can tailor shopper experiences that really feel like video games and yeah, you, you already know, that might be an enormous market. So I’d say keep curious. IT’s not a golden.

Renata Bernarde (30:55)
Mm.

Gerard Miles (31:04)
⁓ simple trough of cash to only fill your self on IT’s a tricky homosexual business and IT’s IT’s bought loads of nuances and IT’s IT’s unforgiving However there’s positively gold to be mined if you are able to do IT in the correct

Renata Bernarde (31:15)
Gerard, I wish to return to that query that I requested you earlier than about ⁓ folks that wish to attain out to you, job candidates that wish to attain out to you. ⁓ I believe you had been excellent at explaining that IT must be inside your area of interest. I get IT. If they’re inside a distinct segment. let’s undergo ⁓ an instance the place they’re within the video games and leisure sector.

They’re the correct candidates for you. What’s the, out of your perspective, and I do know this varies from headhunter to headhunter, however what’s one of the best ways for them to handle their relationship long-term with someone such as you? As a result of I really feel loads of my purchasers wrestle with that, with sustaining a great nurturing and sustaining a great relationship with headhunters long-term. What’s your recommendation? What works for you?

Gerard Miles (32:13)
So I believe there’s a component of, I imply, asking them is typically, know, for easy recommendation, saying like, hey, I’d love to remain in touch. What’s one of the best ways? And I believe folks underestimate the worth of simply saying, what’s the reply to this query that I’m questioning about? And that may occur in all kinds of issues. In order that might be one recommendation. And as you might be asking me, proper, you might be asking me the query. So I’d say being actually clear about, okay, what the connection is, asking what number of roles are you going to have for me?

Renata Bernarde (32:16)
you

Gerard Miles (32:43)
As a result of if the reply is, yeah, you might be related to us, however IT is likely to be one position each 18, 24 months. That provides you a kind of a clue of like, I don’t must examine in with this individual each three months to, you already know, we don’t want have a name each week. you already know, this isn’t environment friendly use of anybody’s time. IT’s staying on the radar. And if you already know, okay, they’re going to have one position each two years, I’ll ship them an e-mail each six months, saying, Hey, simply reminding them alive. That is what I’m as much as. Let me know if a name is sensible. Have you ever bought any purchasers which might be on this house?

Renata Bernarde (32:58)
Mm.

Gerard Miles (33:11)
Make IT very easy for headhunters. like, you already know, if there’s sure corporations are fascinated about say like, Hey, these are the businesses which might be . Do you’re employed with them? In the event you do, right here’s an angle why I believe I’d be fascinated about them. I’d like to get an intro. What’d you suppose? One thing like that. If IT’s additionally, you already know, a distinct segment or a style or no matter IT is. Proper. So I believe being very particular about what you’re on the lookout for, what, what the form of shopper who’s going to be fascinated about, of their profile and a cause why that shopper can be fascinating. So.

I launched someone the opposite day who messaged me. They’re a former C degree exec from a multi-billion greenback media firm. So not a gamer, however once more, that leisure world. They usually mentioned to me, hey, I’m advising loads of non-public fairness on some multi-billion greenback offers. I believe this shopper who’s a shopper of ours is likely to be in the event that they’re trying on the crossover between music licensing and in-game.

use of music, IT’s an space I’m subsequent to, what do you suppose? And I messaged the CEO of that firm and so they messaged saying like, really this isn’t one thing we’re doing. Effective. I used to be ready to return to the individual saying like, elevate your profile if they modify their thoughts, they want you in the event that they don’t. However IT’s very simple so that you can say like, right here’s a really credible individual with very credible cause why they’re contacting. And I be ok with placing that individual on their radar regardless, as a result of they’re a high degree exec. Doesn’t matter, proper? Like simply fascinating individual to know. That’s actually useful to me versus

Renata Bernarde (34:27)
Mm-hmm.

Gerard Miles (34:37)
you already know, the best way, you already know, to say one thing that I believe folks can generally go unsuitable is that they attempt to suppose bit like, Hey, let’s push for a daily each three months. Let’s have a name. That may be really not very helpful for time consumption. And then you definitely’re ready of kind of saying, look, really, let’s catch up in the summertime or one thing like that. And, know, that’s kind of, once more, you’re when folks will reject IT, however you’re simply making an attempt to handle their time actually of claiming, IT’s simply not a cause. So I believe IT’s being clear about why you wish to have that relationship.

Asking them what’s the correct kind of cadence for us to communicate as a result of that may differ from individual to individual as effectively. Like some folks I think about like to do a lot of emails or they like to do WhatsApp or calls or some folks hate that they’re very very like I’ll name you once I must sort factor. So, know, once more, we’ll all differ because the how we work. simply getting a great sense of that. After which I believe simply being each six months, drop them a notice saying, hey, with out expectation, with out an ask of let’s have a name.

Renata Bernarde (35:29)
Mm.

Gerard Miles (35:34)
Or identical to, how are you seeing the marketplace for my form of profile? Do you suppose is IT scorching or not? Make IT simple. No worries if IT’s not. least get a way of the place the timing is on that. What do you suppose to that, Renata? I’m positive you already know. How does that match towards your purchasers’ experiences? Do they curse headhunters and say, ⁓ they’re all so onerous to get on the telephone and so they solely need you they’ve one thing scorching? What’s the view from the opposite aspect, do you suppose?

Renata Bernarde (35:46)
I really like that.

⁓

Nicely, that’s an excellent thanks for bringing IT again to me. Often once I’m interviewing folks, what I really like about IT and since I do some episodes with company and a few by myself, what I like is the episodes with company such as you, Gerard, to validate the recommendation that I’m giving once I’m doing my solo episodes. And what you’re saying is precisely what I inform my listeners and largely and extra bespoke my purchasers to do.

As we have now this dialog, there’s an episode out for the podcast. IT’s three 20. and IT’s in regards to the cringe, cringe as in, I discover IT so cringe to achieve out to a headhunter or to a recruiter. discovered this, I discover IT cringe to put up on LinkedIn or replace my profile or folks actually wish to play cool.

cool and unbothered, proper? In order that’s often, particularly on this house. I’ve by no means labored with ⁓ the gaming and leisure. I’ve a shopper in leisure, however not with video games. However I discover that each one my SaaS purchasers, my techie guys, they don’t wish to be on the market networking, connecting and whatnot. And after they do, they overdo IT. They overcorrect IT by asking to have a espresso, by asking to have a gathering.

And that’s manner an excessive amount of for someone such as you who is probably not as fascinated about that candidate as they’re in connecting with you. So I believe discovering that stability within the attain out, the chilly attain the place you introduce your self and also you ask a query that’s simple so that you can reply fairly than asking for extra of their time might be the correct factor to do.

Gerard Miles (37:51)
I believe that’s fascinating in

our flip. I believe that’s a typical theme of the extremities of motion, both zero curiosity. Individuals say this, like, I haven’t been on the lookout for 10 years, I’ve a CV, and abruptly they now wish to look. We do advise folks to maintain a gardening method, like a bit little bit of upkeep. IT doesn’t must be with head-on. We are saying, take into consideration your community most broadly. Who’re the folks you used to work with who’ve now gone to fascinating corporations?

that you’d be like, OK, yeah, I might work with them. They’ve gone to an organization and also you’re interested in that. Checking with them. And that is likely to be a very easy connection so that you can make, since you used to work with them. Hey, the way you doing? Let’s exit for a pint. Let’s catch up. And I believe that’s proper. And I’d additionally say, don’t go overboard with LinkedIn. I believe generally IT’s not a, and I’d say in the event you’re comfy with feeling, I don’t suppose we have a look at LinkedIn from a head. I’ve by no means been kind of, wow, that individual posts lots on LinkedIn. They’re an amazing candidate.

That’s by no means been in my thoughts in any respect. I believe, however, being kind of having one thing considerate, one thing actually fascinating to say is form of fascinating, proper? In the event you’ve bought a extremely top quality perception of, right here’s this factor I really care about and authentically that is sort actually fascinating data on my sector. That’s one thing I would learn and go, I do not forget that individual. They are saying, I’m fairly sensible about that. And if that comes up, I would suppose, wow, I wish to attain out to them as a result of they appear to learn about this space, proper? They usually may grow to be a candidate by way of this or that, kind of cause. So, ⁓

Renata Bernarde (39:15)
Yeah.

Gerard Miles (39:17)
Yeah, I believe that sounds actually stable recommendation. ⁓

Renata Bernarde (39:20)
Yeah, thanks. I’ve had good, ⁓ excellent outcomes with purchasers for the previous yr and a half, two years on lengthy kind on LinkedIn. So that you happening LinkedIn and writing a considerate piece, not a put up, however extra of an article model content material the place you showcase that you’ve.

⁓ experience and a perspective about your business, about your space of experience. And I like that for my purchasers. ⁓ IT’s not as simple as IT sounds as a result of they might not have written one thing like that within the very long time. know, folks write loads of emails and inside memos, however they don’t put their ideas into paper.

IT’s often once I’m having conversations in a non-public teaching session and I can see their eyes simply mild up after they’re speaking a couple of matter that they’re actually enthusiastic about. And I’m like, we should always put this into paper as a result of I can see your experience right here and no one else is seeing IT. And your LinkedIn profile by itself is just not promoting you the best way that this dialog that we’re having is promoting you. So I discover that.

a great article, a great couple of posts on LinkedIn that individuals such as you is likely to be fascinated about studying. That often is all you want. You don’t must overdo IT on LinkedIn and be there day by day writing. There’s no want for that.

Gerard Miles (40:44)
Yeah, and I believe I don’t know your opinion. I believe I can flip folks off really. That may be a kind of a suspicion of and also you merely speak about conferences. suppose you already know, you’ll be able to generally they are often useful, however you don’t. We’re going to see you speak about this the opposite week on Apple, as a result of we had been saying like, there’s individuals who at all times simply go to conferences. They are saying, I by no means rent these guys who’re like at each single convention and, you already know, simply simply to all in regards to the self publicity, proper? IT’s a stability of being someplace for a goal and leaving a considerate impression with some

I believe is absolutely impactful in the event you’re simply being seen on a regular basis and go away no considerate impacts. That’s really degrading your personal model, proper? If you consider IT as a model proposition, that’s one thing that’s fascinating.

Renata Bernarde (41:23)
Sure,

sure, I like that. And also you’re proper. suppose relying in your degree of seniority, the place you’re at in your profession, the business you’re employed in, that needs to be what drives your LinkedIn presence and your networking calendar for the yr.

Gerard, as a closing notice, what piece of recommendation would you give job candidates on the lookout for work, working with you or in any other case What are you seeing available in the market there that perhaps IT’s a great alternative to share?

Gerard Miles (42:00)
So IT’s a tough one, isn’t IT? As a result of I believe we’re all, as a result of there’s a lot Information on a regular basis. stay in fixed, there’s a market drive of greed and concern, I believe, are being stoked always inside me. And also you learn one factor and also you suppose, that is going to be thrilling. You learn one other article saying that’s a bubble. You’re going to get burned in the event you go into that. I believe, imply, at one degree, no secrets and techniques, clearly, that the AI funding.

IT’s simply a lot cash goes into that. And we’re to see that feeding by way of. Now, once more, is {that a} bubble? Will that abruptly fall out or there’ll be loads of ache? imply, the reply might be sure. In all probability there will likely be loads of ache as a result of no business, you see these explosions of curiosity. Loads of these corporations don’t make IT. And that’s to not say IT’s not an actual business. IT’s identical to a automobile business. Loads of them went bankrupt and you’ve got a number of small ones taking all of the market share.

That’s simply naturally what occurs in these industries of development and alternative. However I nonetheless suppose that that’s actually fascinating to look at with no secret supply in any respect. I believe IT’s such an enormous query, Renata. The sincere reply is I don’t know. I’ve kind of struggled with this myself. There’s some huge issues of geopolitically that may occur. imply, what’s taking place with rates of interest, what occurs with battle. There’s loads of…

Macro, what are Trump’s insurance policies on the economic system? I imply, I’d say we’re nonetheless in an period the place the weighting to what occurs in America is large to globally what occurs within the economies elsewhere. We’re nonetheless in Europe in loads of, I believe, sticky waters with affordable inflation and troublesome to get rates of interest down, loads of debt, each nationally and at a private degree.

So what does that say? don’t, the percentages are I don’t know. suppose, I Technology, I, suppose the broadest recommendation, which might be the evergreen recommendation is have a look at the place is the, the disruptor, the place’s the new cash going to stream into? Since you typically have these home windows of two or three years in a brand new house. Um, and no matter sector you’re in, attempt to take into consideration, okay, what’s that subsequent crossover place the place IT’s abruptly that innovation might be taking place as a result of that’s, that’s the place IT will get actually thrilling for folks to,

catapult their careers to make you already know actually life-changing quantities of cash in fairness or no matter IT is and and create an amazing story of development. In case you are in an organization the place you’ll be able to kind of see the writing on the wall most likely don’t grasp on to be the final individual standing proper in the event you’re in an organization you’re pondering IT’s gonna be Kalt’s subsequent two three years I’m most likely effectively positioned that they’ll they’ll hold me on to take care of that I’d most likely say is that what you need although proper do you wish to be

sitting with a model that’s on the decline. In the event you consider IT might be rotated, incredible, proper? That might be an amazing story. However in the event you kind of know the course, however you’re saying, I’d fairly kind of stick IT for the 18 months, 24 months of paycheck I get versus discovering one thing new and thrilling and totally different, ⁓ then that is likely to be the higher mid to long run name on your profession. And that takes a bit little bit of braveness. once more, don’t make a name if IT’s not, know, get a number of.

you’re in regards to the mortgage or no matter, don’t go do IT. What’s your danger urge for food? And being very clear and understanding on that and being ready to lose IT all is why suppose we have now to take that method. Or in the event you’re comfy taking that method, then do IT. ⁓ So that might be kind of evergreen recommendation. However no, I don’t have a specific market the place I’d say, hey, you’ve bought to get into this. However some themes are.

Renata Bernarde (45:19)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Gerard Miles (45:45)
I might identify you a lot of themes, but additionally may say, effectively, I don’t know when that theme stops, you already know, funding from Saudi Arabia, funding from the Center East. That appears to proceed. However might that decelerate in some unspecified time in the future? Probably? Sure. Proper. IT’s affected by oil costs and different issues. You already know, might you already know, AI, you already know, which AI corporations can do tremendous effectively? I don’t know. Or what’s the subsequent huge tech innovation? Once more, I’ve one theme, Renata, and I recognize going right here. However one theme is clearly, once more, is the shorter consideration spans.

Renata Bernarde (45:50)
Yeah.

Gerard Miles (46:14)
the kind of TikTokification of different media platforms. We kind of see that, proper? Like the truth that you need that shorter dopamine right here. How do you get the compressor out? Just like the Twitter, X, TikTok, all this stuff are doing excellent at condensing IT. Then you definately see them generally going again to bigger codecs, however we see that kind of impact into different industries. And I believe that’s form of fascinating. You’ll be able to take an extended format and work out a manner of actually packaging IT in a smaller bite-sized piece that hasn’t been finished but.

That’s actually fascinating. We see that with audio, for instance. Audio tales are getting shorter and persons are actually consuming that in a better quantity. And there’s some huge cash, tons of of tens of millions to make out of that. that’d be an instance, I believe, of fascinating areas to have a look at.

Renata Bernarde (46:55)
Okay, one closing query. Do you see the Mission 1 2026 outcomes being similar to Mission 1’s 2025 outcomes? Are you anticipating development or, you already know, adjustments?

Gerard Miles (47:11)
I want I might inform you. suppose the reply is we’ve grown yearly. We’ve been going for 3 years and we had our greatest yr this yr, which is incredible. So logic would say, we’re getting the model on the market. I imply, that’s additionally a slight query of our means to construct the model and develop. I believe the extra entrenched you get, the extra status you get, IT’s higher. Additionally, we’re very market dependent. The sport market is slowly choosing up. IT’s slowly getting higher, however IT’s not revving up. However I believe 2026 will likely be higher.

Renata Bernarde (47:19)
Good.

Gerard Miles (47:40)
so I believe IT will likely be, ⁓ however I, I’m, very aware that we journey, we journey and fall available on the market a bit bit. and, you kind of, you’re both comfy with that in a feast and famine sort sort enterprise, ⁓ otherwise you look to diversify. are diversifying throughout extra shopper items, notably my colleague, Dan Hampton, he’s doing extra shopper work in North America. So there’s additionally a component of.

Attempting to broaden that out to be sure to’re not fairly as up and down on one market. However no we’re in we’re hoping that that subsequent yr is even higher up however however once more, IT’s IT’s The nuances of headhunting I’d fairly that is nonetheless a listing is however new additionally headhunting is that you just’re typically IT a lot of folks can such as you but when they’re not hiring a CTO or a CPA or CEO that yr, proper? They don’t want you So IT’s not a case of like are you preferred are you skillful? Do folks wish to work with you? IT’s extra a case of do they then have a

a job and once more, you’re not hiring a CEO yearly. In order that’s kind of, get repeat enterprise, IT’s form of, uh, IT’s a fluctuates with these. I discover headhunting a really onerous enterprise to foretell when it comes to income. Um, the smaller scale you might be, so we’re a boutique, we’re a world boutique, however we’re boutique. So in the event you’ve bought 1000’s of individuals, you’ll be able to combination IT out a bit bit extra, however you already know, our income can spike generally. Generally our charges might be, you already know, um,

Renata Bernarde (48:56)
Mm-hmm.

Gerard Miles (49:05)
$200,000, $300,000 on a single placement. So once more, whether or not these go off or not makes a huge impact to our income or extra. So IT’s kind of, ⁓ there’s an enormous swings ⁓ that may push a yr to being a bumpy yr or not, proper? As a result of an individual won’t get the job or no matter occurs there which means IT doesn’t come by way of.

Renata Bernarde (49:24)
Gerard, thanks a lot for taking the time to have a dialog with us. I believe these conversations actually give my viewers loads of insights on how headhunters suppose, how they work, and that is invaluable Information for those who are job-seeking on the market. So thanks a lot for taking the time to speak to me at this time.

Gerard Miles (49:44)
IT’s an absolute pleasure and I hope IT’s been helpful on your listeners and ⁓ yeah, good luck with the present. IT’s actually fascinating. You’ve bought a extremely broad vary of listeners and views that approaching right here. So thanks a lot and ⁓ yeah, stay up for listening to maybe out of your listeners as effectively. If any attain out to me, I’ll let you already know and we are able to really assist folks. you’re very sort. Yeah, IT’s Mission One, The Government Edge and yeah, we hope folks come on there to assist. That’s for 2 functions. One is to assist folks get

Renata Bernarde (50:02)
Okay. I’ll put the hyperlink to your podcast. Good day. I’ll put the hyperlink to the podcast.

Gerard Miles (50:14)
enhance their careers and get higher Jobs and the second is to assist folks make higher hiring selections as effectively. In order that’s the twin goal of the pod.

Renata Bernarde (50:22)
Wonderful. Thanks, Gerard.